Comments on: Barack Obama, neo­conserv­ative? http://blog.voyou.org/2008/11/25/barack-obama-neoconservative/ Lazy rascals, spending their substance, and more, in riotous living Tue, 27 Jul 2010 23:46:35 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Rob http://blog.voyou.org/2008/11/25/barack-obama-neoconservative/comment-page-1/#comment-32375 Rob Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:04:18 +0000 http://blog.voyou.org/?p=465#comment-32375 It's especially difficult to the consider the War on Terror as anything particularly new when it is counterposed to the 'humanitarian imperialism' of the preceding period (as exemplified by the Kosovo intervention). In both situations the US (and its allies) has positioned itself as defender of the world system as a whole. In both situations the US positions itself as having a special right of action to 'protect' the world system. Finally, in both situations this is manifested as either 'disregard' of the law or the crafting of a 'special' hegemonic international law. Perhaps the only differences are that the US alienated (some) of its allies more in the latter period and that the Bush administration more obviously had recourse to force (although this may be a matter of perception, the Bush administration has clearly engaged in a lot of 'soft-power' initiatives). It’s especially difficult to the consider the War on Terror as anything particularly new when it is counterposed to the ‘humanitarian imperialism’ of the preceding period (as exemplified by the Kosovo intervention). In both situations the US (and its allies) has positioned itself as defender of the world system as a whole. In both situations the US positions itself as having a special right of action to ‘protect’ the world system. Finally, in both situations this is manifested as either ‘disregard’ of the law or the crafting of a ‘special’ hegemonic international law.

Perhaps the only differences are that the US alienated (some) of its allies more in the latter period and that the Bush administration more obviously had recourse to force (although this may be a matter of perception, the Bush administration has clearly engaged in a lot of ‘soft-power’ initiatives).

]]> By: bat020 http://blog.voyou.org/2008/11/25/barack-obama-neoconservative/comment-page-1/#comment-32374 bat020 Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:48:57 +0000 http://blog.voyou.org/?p=465#comment-32374 I think it's difficult to argue that the 'war on terror' involves something qualitatievely new in imperialism without conceding that 9/11 was some sort of rupture in world history, an Event-with-a-capital-E - something I'm reluctant to accept. I think it’s difficult to argue that the ‘war on terror’ involves something qualitatievely new in imperialism without conceding that 9/11 was some sort of rupture in world history, an Event-with-a-capital-E – something I’m reluctant to accept.

]]> By: voyou http://blog.voyou.org/2008/11/25/barack-obama-neoconservative/comment-page-1/#comment-32373 voyou Fri, 05 Dec 2008 19:01:31 +0000 http://blog.voyou.org/?p=465#comment-32373 The photos are <a href="http://wrong.voyou.org/wrong/2005/03/24/scoop/" rel="nofollow">over here</a>. Now with 80 comments! The photos are over here. Now with 80 comments!

]]> By: Irene http://blog.voyou.org/2008/11/25/barack-obama-neoconservative/comment-page-1/#comment-32372 Irene Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:00:28 +0000 http://blog.voyou.org/?p=465#comment-32372 Off piste - apologies. My query is, what happened to that hilarious yet touching feature about Zizek's last (?) marriage which the wonderful "Wrong Side of Capitalism" put up shortly after the Royal Wedding? Can't seem to track it down. Off piste – apologies. My query is, what happened to that hilarious yet touching feature about Zizek’s last (?) marriage which the wonderful “Wrong Side of Capitalism” put up shortly after the Royal Wedding? Can’t seem to track it down.

]]> By: voyou http://blog.voyou.org/2008/11/25/barack-obama-neoconservative/comment-page-1/#comment-32371 voyou Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:36:17 +0000 http://blog.voyou.org/?p=465#comment-32371 You're right, "welfare cutbacks" was lazy (although I think I picked up my laziness from Zizek); "a scaling back of the welfare state" is probably more accurate, although what I really want is a word that means "scaling back through reorganizing." I bet there is a word for that in German. Anyway, particularly foolish of me to say "welfare cutbacks" because, as you say, I want to say that New Labour really are different in form (if in some way similar in content) to what preceded them. bat, I wonder if there's a similarity between Bush and Obama that's a bit more specific than imperialism, a mode of imperialism in the same way that neoliberalism would be a particular mode of capitalism? This might depend on whether or not the war on terror actually involves something qualitatievely new in imperialism, which I don't really have a firm opinion on. You’re right, “welfare cutbacks” was lazy (although I think I picked up my laziness from Zizek); “a scaling back of the welfare state” is probably more accurate, although what I really want is a word that means “scaling back through reorganizing.” I bet there is a word for that in German. Anyway, particularly foolish of me to say “welfare cutbacks” because, as you say, I want to say that New Labour really are different in form (if in some way similar in content) to what preceded them.

bat, I wonder if there’s a similarity between Bush and Obama that’s a bit more specific than imperialism, a mode of imperialism in the same way that neoliberalism would be a particular mode of capitalism? This might depend on whether or not the war on terror actually involves something qualitatievely new in imperialism, which I don’t really have a firm opinion on.

]]> By: Tom http://blog.voyou.org/2008/11/25/barack-obama-neoconservative/comment-page-1/#comment-32370 Tom Wed, 03 Dec 2008 19:44:47 +0000 http://blog.voyou.org/?p=465#comment-32370 Looking more carefully at your note, Tim, which obviously I only did after clicking 'post', I suppose we are actually agreed on the conclusion - that what you call 'rational neoliberalism' can usefully be distinguished from ideologically aggressive neoliberalism. But I think you need to pick your examples of overlap between the two better to make the case meaningfully that both are 'neoliberal'. Looking more carefully at your note, Tim, which obviously I only did after clicking ‘post’, I suppose we are actually agreed on the conclusion – that what you call ‘rational neoliberalism’ can usefully be distinguished from ideologically aggressive neoliberalism. But I think you need to pick your examples of overlap between the two better to make the case meaningfully that both are ‘neoliberal’.

]]> By: Tom http://blog.voyou.org/2008/11/25/barack-obama-neoconservative/comment-page-1/#comment-32369 Tom Wed, 03 Dec 2008 19:37:14 +0000 http://blog.voyou.org/?p=465#comment-32369 While I admire the way this line of thinking enables the most ultra-left argument ever for voting Labour [vote Blair because he will actually implement right-wing policies which will aggravate people which will foment revolution], I don't think it stands examination. The Labour government has quite substantially increased the incomes of the poorest lone parents. The cut to the lone parent rate of child benefit was rather bad publicity for Labour in 1997 but the old benefit was actually a poor poverty reduction measure because it wasn't income based. The newer tax credits system directs much greater sums to the poorest families. And while ESA [to take the other example] is worse and meaner in some ways than IB, it is also better and more generous in other ways, especially towards the poorest claimants. The 'fit note' stuff is really just window-dressing. I don't know in any detail about the welfare policy of the Clinton administration, but then, I suspect, neither does Zizek. While I admire the way this line of thinking enables the most ultra-left argument ever for voting Labour [vote Blair because he will actually implement right-wing policies which will aggravate people which will foment revolution], I don’t think it stands examination.

The Labour government has quite substantially increased the incomes of the poorest lone parents. The cut to the lone parent rate of child benefit was rather bad publicity for Labour in 1997 but the old benefit was actually a poor poverty reduction measure because it wasn’t income based. The newer tax credits system directs much greater sums to the poorest families.

And while ESA [to take the other example] is worse and meaner in some ways than IB, it is also better and more generous in other ways, especially towards the poorest claimants. The ‘fit note’ stuff is really just window-dressing.

I don’t know in any detail about the welfare policy of the Clinton administration, but then, I suspect, neither does Zizek.

]]> By: bat020 http://blog.voyou.org/2008/11/25/barack-obama-neoconservative/comment-page-1/#comment-32368 bat020 Tue, 02 Dec 2008 10:23:45 +0000 http://blog.voyou.org/?p=465#comment-32368 A better way of putting it would be that Obama represents the "rational" mode of US imperialism, and is as such a step away from the neoconservative mode. There's an important structural difference between neoliberalism and neoconservatism - the former term is wide enough to accommodate a "pragmatic" version (Blair, Clinton etc), while the latter is _defined_ precisely by its ideological zeal (that's what makes it "neo" in the first place). A better way of putting it would be that Obama represents the “rational” mode of US imperialism, and is as such a step away from the neoconservative mode. There’s an important structural difference between neoliberalism and neoconservatism – the former term is wide enough to accommodate a “pragmatic” version (Blair, Clinton etc), while the latter is _defined_ precisely by its ideological zeal (that’s what makes it “neo” in the first place).

]]> By: Owen http://blog.voyou.org/2008/11/25/barack-obama-neoconservative/comment-page-1/#comment-32365 Owen Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:29:29 +0000 http://blog.voyou.org/?p=465#comment-32365 I can't speak for Tim, but only yesterday there was <a href="http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20081125/tuk-fit-notes-to-replace-sick-notes-6323e80.html" rel="nofollow">this</a>. One of the earliest acts of the government was a cut in lone parent benefit. Neither Blair nor Brown have ever 'abolished' a benefit - neither did Thatcher. Like her, they've rebranded them, remaking them into something more limited and punitive, via 'New Deal' (ie, Welfare to Work), the current attempts to rename and limit Incapacity Benefit, etc etc. This is all pretty commonplace stuff. I can’t speak for Tim, but only yesterday there was this. One of the earliest acts of the government was a cut in lone parent benefit. Neither Blair nor Brown have ever ‘abolished’ a benefit – neither did Thatcher. Like her, they’ve rebranded them, remaking them into something more limited and punitive, via ‘New Deal’ (ie, Welfare to Work), the current attempts to rename and limit Incapacity Benefit, etc etc. This is all pretty commonplace stuff.

]]> By: Tom http://blog.voyou.org/2008/11/25/barack-obama-neoconservative/comment-page-1/#comment-32364 Tom Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:04:30 +0000 http://blog.voyou.org/?p=465#comment-32364 Which welfare cutbacks are you thinking of from Tony Blair? Tom Which welfare cutbacks are you thinking of from Tony Blair?

Tom

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