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	<title>Comments on: Ig­no­rant school­mas­ters</title>
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	<link>http://blog.voyou.org/2007/12/08/ignorant-schoolmasters/</link>
	<description>Lazy rascals, spending their substance, and more, in riotous living</description>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://blog.voyou.org/2007/12/08/ignorant-schoolmasters/comment-page-1/#comment-15273</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 06:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.voyou.org/2007/12/08/ignorant-schoolmasters/#comment-15273</guid>
		<description>You are, in general, right about the process of &#039;guiding.&#039; I experienced that earlier in my schooling - teachers who want to preserve the knowledge-transmission of the lecture but without the moral taint of authority (is that all it takes to help ex-radicals sleep at night?). That method is no more useful than lecturing, and in fact perhaps worse, since you become complicit in your own acceptance of received ideas - because the hierarchy becomes invisible. 

The guiding I was referring to (from later in my education, at a very fancy prep school I must admit) isn&#039;t guiding in this sense; mostly my teachers threw the book down on the table and let us hash it out ourselves. Which is to say, who needs teachers if you&#039;ve got students to learn from? [I was no longer involved in hard sciences by this point, i should also note.] That was a true process of exploration, in contrast to the &quot;let&#039;s-explore-but-we-have-a-definite-goal-and-I-will-make-sure-we-get-there&quot; approach of my earlier schooling. 

I&#039;m hanging on to my ideas that knowledge transmission = hierarchy, but with the caveat that yes, of course, you&#039;re right that teachers can&#039;t really impose thoughts; only, in practice continued resistance is rather difficult. I think that&#039;s tied to training; schools are not about transmitting knowledge, but about transmitting ways of interacting with knowledge. Which is why most schools teach by lecture or &#039;guiding,&#039; and the schools of the ruling classes teach students to guide themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are, in general, right about the process of &#8216;guiding.&#8217; I experienced that earlier in my schooling &#8211; teachers who want to preserve the knowledge-transmission of the lecture but without the moral taint of authority (is that all it takes to help ex-radicals sleep at night?). That method is no more useful than lecturing, and in fact perhaps worse, since you become complicit in your own acceptance of received ideas &#8211; because the hierarchy becomes invisible. </p>
<p>The guiding I was referring to (from later in my education, at a very fancy prep school I must admit) isn&#8217;t guiding in this sense; mostly my teachers threw the book down on the table and let us hash it out ourselves. Which is to say, who needs teachers if you&#8217;ve got students to learn from? [I was no longer involved in hard sciences by this point, i should also note.] That was a true process of exploration, in contrast to the &#8220;let&#8217;s-explore-but-we-have-a-definite-goal-and-I-will-make-sure-we-get-there&#8221; approach of my earlier schooling. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m hanging on to my ideas that knowledge transmission = hierarchy, but with the caveat that yes, of course, you&#8217;re right that teachers can&#8217;t really impose thoughts; only, in practice continued resistance is rather difficult. I think that&#8217;s tied to training; schools are not about transmitting knowledge, but about transmitting ways of interacting with knowledge. Which is why most schools teach by lecture or &#8216;guiding,&#8217; and the schools of the ruling classes teach students to guide themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: voyou</title>
		<link>http://blog.voyou.org/2007/12/08/ignorant-schoolmasters/comment-page-1/#comment-15004</link>
		<dc:creator>voyou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 03:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.voyou.org/2007/12/08/ignorant-schoolmasters/#comment-15004</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think I agree with the idea that imparting knowledge is particularly connected with hierarchy - just because somebody tells me something doesn&#039;t mean I have to accept it. Indeed, it&#039;s precisely the one-way nature of knowledge transmission that is liberating; if somebody is lecturing, I can choose to ignore them, agree with them, disagree with them. 

The idea of teacher as guide strikes me as having at least as much potential for hierarchy, possibly more, because the person being guided is continually being nudged by the guide, which may make it harder for them to sort out their own responses from the direction of the guide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think I agree with the idea that imparting knowledge is particularly connected with hierarchy &#8211; just because somebody tells me something doesn&#8217;t mean I have to accept it. Indeed, it&#8217;s precisely the one-way nature of knowledge transmission that is liberating; if somebody is lecturing, I can choose to ignore them, agree with them, disagree with them. </p>
<p>The idea of teacher as guide strikes me as having at least as much potential for hierarchy, possibly more, because the person being guided is continually being nudged by the guide, which may make it harder for them to sort out their own responses from the direction of the guide.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://blog.voyou.org/2007/12/08/ignorant-schoolmasters/comment-page-1/#comment-15003</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 02:16:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.voyou.org/2007/12/08/ignorant-schoolmasters/#comment-15003</guid>
		<description>I was spoiled, educationally speaking, by a system in which teachers facilitated a deep inquiry into a text by guiding students through the process of discovery. It&#039;s neither faux-ignorance nor didacticism, but rather the existence of a conversation between all participants. Teachers should teach methods of exploration rather than expect students to absorb received knowledge. The latter form of knowledge transmission seems to me deeply reactionary because of its basis in hierarchy and power (i.e., good training for listening to orders from those in power).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was spoiled, educationally speaking, by a system in which teachers facilitated a deep inquiry into a text by guiding students through the process of discovery. It&#8217;s neither faux-ignorance nor didacticism, but rather the existence of a conversation between all participants. Teachers should teach methods of exploration rather than expect students to absorb received knowledge. The latter form of knowledge transmission seems to me deeply reactionary because of its basis in hierarchy and power (i.e., good training for listening to orders from those in power).</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://blog.voyou.org/2007/12/08/ignorant-schoolmasters/comment-page-1/#comment-14994</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2007 19:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.voyou.org/2007/12/08/ignorant-schoolmasters/#comment-14994</guid>
		<description>Presumably you don&#039;t like Rousseau, then. I agree; I know much better than my class that you shouldn&#039;t poke people with pencils, and I regularly tell them this, although it doesn&#039;t seem to have gone in very well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Presumably you don&#8217;t like Rousseau, then. I agree; I know much better than my class that you shouldn&#8217;t poke people with pencils, and I regularly tell them this, although it doesn&#8217;t seem to have gone in very well.</p>
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		<title>By: voyou</title>
		<link>http://blog.voyou.org/2007/12/08/ignorant-schoolmasters/comment-page-1/#comment-14969</link>
		<dc:creator>voyou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 21:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.voyou.org/2007/12/08/ignorant-schoolmasters/#comment-14969</guid>
		<description>Well, they shouldn&#039;t be teachers, then. If a teacher isn&#039;t going to tell a student something, they should leave the students alone to read books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, they shouldn&#8217;t be teachers, then. If a teacher isn&#8217;t going to tell a student something, they should leave the students alone to read books.</p>
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		<title>By: richard</title>
		<link>http://blog.voyou.org/2007/12/08/ignorant-schoolmasters/comment-page-1/#comment-14967</link>
		<dc:creator>richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 20:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.voyou.org/2007/12/08/ignorant-schoolmasters/#comment-14967</guid>
		<description>&#039;Teachers are not ignorant;&#039; yes they are</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Teachers are not ignorant;&#8217; yes they are</p>
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